Response to Rob
I was gonna leave a quick comment on Rob's post about female superhero movies (essentially, he asks why this genre tends to skew toward critical failure), as follows:
*****
When you look at these 3 particular movies, you see how it happens:
--Catwoman was a complete bastardization of the Batman idea. It was a spinoff, but with nothing to spin off from. As such, it floundered and had to completely come off the core concept in order to attempt to be completely independent. And I haven't even seen it.
--Elektra did have something to spin off from, but DareDevil was not good in itself, so it had a bad start. And not knowing the comic book center of the character, I'd have to ask: why was she fighting villains from VanHelsing? A werewolf? Was there a witch in there? No direction = bad movie.
--As for Aeon Flux, it's the toughest movie of the 3 to pull off conceptually. The original cartoon had the oddest feel and pacing to it, aside from the crazy and fantastical "physical" elements. It was also a cult thing, which is always tough to bring into the mainstream, 'cause either you keep it true to the original and alienate the broader audience or do what I suspect they did with this: change it enough to make it for a broader audience. Having Charleze Theron in the role really speaks to the latter.
Hollywood execs aren't the most original bunch, so basically, they're pushing to be "original" by spinning old concepts. I think it's what they're doing with these characters and they're failing miserably trying to make tradional hero movies but with girls. Heck, that normally doesn't work even when the heroes are guys. Plus, I don't know how much of the production teams are avid fans of these characters. You're gonna tell me the director of Elektra used to read her comic books as a kid? Aeon Flux's producer used to avidly record Liquid TV? Somehow, I doubt that. And that transcends the gender issue: Hulk was direct by Ang frikin' Lee and that movie blew.
On the other hand, you have movies like Batman Begins and the X-Mens, where the people working on the films really care about the characters 'cause they grew up with them (the cure for C), so that might at least partially explain why they tend to be better products (answer for A), which lead to more critical acclaim (there's for B).
I think this also holds true for the TV ideas, by the way. Buffy and Alias (and to a lesser extent Dark Angel) had more success because they were pushed to be as good as their creators' visions. These shows were the brain children of people like Joss Whedon and JJ Abrahams, guys who've shown how hard they can push an idea and how hard they'll work and fight for it. The shows had heart because of it and that can make for a good run.
"In the end, we have to get Biblical:but then I felt I needed to explain myself and that turned out kinda long, so I thought I might just post it here instead.
C begets A, which in turn begets B."
*****
When you look at these 3 particular movies, you see how it happens:
--Catwoman was a complete bastardization of the Batman idea. It was a spinoff, but with nothing to spin off from. As such, it floundered and had to completely come off the core concept in order to attempt to be completely independent. And I haven't even seen it.
--Elektra did have something to spin off from, but DareDevil was not good in itself, so it had a bad start. And not knowing the comic book center of the character, I'd have to ask: why was she fighting villains from VanHelsing? A werewolf? Was there a witch in there? No direction = bad movie.
--As for Aeon Flux, it's the toughest movie of the 3 to pull off conceptually. The original cartoon had the oddest feel and pacing to it, aside from the crazy and fantastical "physical" elements. It was also a cult thing, which is always tough to bring into the mainstream, 'cause either you keep it true to the original and alienate the broader audience or do what I suspect they did with this: change it enough to make it for a broader audience. Having Charleze Theron in the role really speaks to the latter.
Hollywood execs aren't the most original bunch, so basically, they're pushing to be "original" by spinning old concepts. I think it's what they're doing with these characters and they're failing miserably trying to make tradional hero movies but with girls. Heck, that normally doesn't work even when the heroes are guys. Plus, I don't know how much of the production teams are avid fans of these characters. You're gonna tell me the director of Elektra used to read her comic books as a kid? Aeon Flux's producer used to avidly record Liquid TV? Somehow, I doubt that. And that transcends the gender issue: Hulk was direct by Ang frikin' Lee and that movie blew.
On the other hand, you have movies like Batman Begins and the X-Mens, where the people working on the films really care about the characters 'cause they grew up with them (the cure for C), so that might at least partially explain why they tend to be better products (answer for A), which lead to more critical acclaim (there's for B).
I think this also holds true for the TV ideas, by the way. Buffy and Alias (and to a lesser extent Dark Angel) had more success because they were pushed to be as good as their creators' visions. These shows were the brain children of people like Joss Whedon and JJ Abrahams, guys who've shown how hard they can push an idea and how hard they'll work and fight for it. The shows had heart because of it and that can make for a good run.
posted by Drewby at
11:03 AM
3 Comments:
So the core difference is depth of commitment. That makes sense.
It may be something expressable in terms of director quality. I was of the impression that Bryan Singer embraced X-Men despite never having heard of it. Sam Raimi was a natural. Rob Cohen wasn't and won't be.
And I think there's the temptation to think a movie can eye candy its way to success. As if every additional square inch of Halle Berry would put more people in the seats. Audiences like hotness, but they generally disdain being openly pandered to. At least I think so.
So by your reckoning a good female-centered movie is possible. One hopes so.
Are there any plans for a Wonder Woman? Who would make a good WW?
I would think the project would be making the rounds, considering all the recent comic movies and the fact that it would be the single biggest female superhero. I'd also think there'd be enough support from some of the women in Hollywood to make sure it'd be good.
And the first person that comes to my mind to play her would be Jennifer Garner - dark hair, athletic, strong but able to show some vulnerability. Not overly imposing, though (she's suposed to be an Amazon pirncess, afterall).
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